Listening – Magico S1 MkII
To start off, I listened to the ST-10, connected in-between the Audio-GD Master 1 preamp and Magico S1 MkII speakers. This produces a sound that I am intimately familiar with: very robust and impactful, even more so than the A1.5 in that respect, with lots of dynamic slam and a very realistic timbre. It’s an always enthusiastic reproduction that never fails to make the foot tap. The relative downsides compared to the best that I have available, the 31.000-euro CH A1.5 amplifier, are mainly resolution, treble refinement and fluidity. And while the humble ST-10 will not replace the A1.5 for these reasons, it certainly has a joyful way of music-making that works remarkably well even with the revealing Magicos.
Changing from the ST-10 to the AMG STA was like changing to a completely different brand of amplifier. It does not have the ST-10’s sonorous ballsiness nor entirely all of its dynamic impact, but otherwise, it seriously ups the game. I’m not kidding: the AMG STA raises the quality in some areas all the way into high-end territory.
How shall I put this… It’s a shame that I have no Jeff Rowland amplifiers anymore because I’d swear that the AMG STA’s sound is very close. And I don’t mean close to the early ICE-power Model 201’s or the later Pascal Model 525 but a mix of the Class-AB Model 10 and Model 6 monos. From memory (dangerously deceptive, I know) and deducting via a range of other components (making matters worse) but in the same room, I would swear that the AMG STA has the transparency, refinement and agility of the Model 6 and a portion of the warmth and smoothness of the Model 10, only really falling behind in terms of ultimate tonal fullness.
Of course, if you’ve never heard any JRDG amplifiers then all that means exactly zero. But if I add that the cost of these classics was around 15K and 11K in euros 20 years ago, then that should indicate just how class-defying the AMG STA’s performance actually is.
A better example would be the current JRDG Model 625 S2 Class-AB amplifier for 21.000 euros. Does the AMG STA beat it? Well, no. The Jeff has a tonally richer sound with more authority and a more fleshed-out sound but, otherwise, to be honest, I don’t feel that the AMG STA concedes anything in terms of refinement, agility, low-lever resolution, transparency and overall finesse.
CH Precision electronics have all the fluidity and refinement that I loved from JRDG components, along with more authority and increased precision and transparency, which is why I changed teams some time ago. So, how does the AMG STA compare to the 31K CH A1.5? Actually, it comes much closer than it has a right to! In terms of refinement, resolution and fluidity it is almost on par which I think is absolutely bonkers given how world-class the A1.5 is in these respects. Importantly, there is not a hint of artificiality to the AMG STA’s delivery and the word “digital” or “switching” certainly does not spring to mind. And as long as you don’t make direct comparisons or know any better, there’s remarkably little amiss. Where the Big Swiss ultimately does retaliate is in terms of bass-precision and -articulation, dynamic power, tonal fullness and overall authority. Fair enough.
As I mentioned, the AMG STA not only addresses all of the ST-10’s weaker areas but actually raises the overall quality to such an extent that it comfortably positions itself among high-end competitors that cost multiples upon multiples. Alas, in the process, it does give up a good portion of the ST-10’s bass heft and overall robustness. But otherwise, it sets the benchmark, not only in its price class but also far, far beyond.
Given that both amplifiers cost exactly the same, this means that the decision between the two will come down entirely to personal taste and system synergy. If you don’t need the very best in bass slam and outright ballsiness, go with the AMG STA. If rocking out is most important to you, go with the ST-10. In that respect, there is very nearly nothing that can beat it. Of all the amplifiers that I have heard so far, only the Anthem STR and the Classe Delta v3 can top it in terms of dynamic slam.
It’s also worth noting that even on the highest levels, I can confirm that it remains a bit of a horses-for-courses exercise, for instance, a CH amp doing certain things a Soulution can’t and vice versa.
Listening – SONs
Over for another review are a very special pair of WvL SON loudspeakers that use a Field Coil woofer combined with an Air Motion Transformer tweeter to arrive at a super-expressive sound that is utterly revealing of everything that is connected upstream.
With these speakers, I used the NuPrime AMG STA amplifier both with the Aqua DAC and Audio GD preamplifier as well as with the C1 DAC directly.
I should note that I connected the AMG STA after having tried all other options and having completed the review process for the SON speakers. As such, I was fully aware of their capabilities, and therefore it was all the more surprising how immaculately the little amp performed even with the extremely revealing SONs. I did feel that the inherently smooth-sounding Driade Flow 405 speaker cable that I frequently use in this setup was not ideal for the AMG STA. This is because the NuPrime amp has precisely enough smoothness built-in to not require further romanticizing of the signal. The Jorma Trinity worked perfectly and I imagine that there will be plenty of other speakers cables that perform well, as long as they are fast-sounding, articulate and essentially neutral.
Indeed, unlike the ST-10, the AMG STA has so much finesse and is so retina-like in its resolution and fluidity that it will take a particularly bad cable to make it sound rough or dry. But that’s not to say that it smooths over details. When reading the manufacturer’s website, one could get the impression that the AMG STA sounds extra-harmonically-rich and maybe even colored. Having heard the amplifier with the SONS as well as my Magico S1 MkII’s and audio buddy Niels’ Magico Q5’s (as I will describe further below), I will agree that the amp is unusually fluid and refined not only for a Class-D design but even if it were a Class AB amplifier. But I never had the impression that the AMG STA is in any way colored. Rather, it is very pure and neutral and utterly linear, with just a hint of sweetness.
With the S1 MkII’s and after having heard the ST-10, I felt that the AMG STA’s bass could be more robust and impactful and the sound could do with a little more dynamic impact. Both the ST-10 and the CH amp performed more impressively in that respect. However, when combined with the inherently agile and expressive, full-bodied and dynamic SONs, I could just not find fault with the AMG STA’s presentation even in its relatively weaker areas. Sure, if you’d connect the other amplifiers then the SONs would perform even more impactfully but without direct comparison, there’s simply nothing amiss.
AMG HPA preamp
When delivering the AMG STA power amplifier, Dutch Distributor Dimex also had the 1.895-euro AMG HPA preamp and headphone amplifier available. While this review will focus primarily on the power amplifier, I agreed to also listen to the preamp as part of a sideline story.
Before going there, I should note that the AMG HPA is not the AMG STA’s natural partner. The AMG PRA is actually designed to bring up the best in AMG STA. Early next year, the plan is to write a follow-up to this review in which I will include the AMG PRA.
Just to make sure I was obtaining the maximum performance, the preamp has been allowed a copious amount of time (over 2 weeks) to run in and warm-up, prior to the start of my comparisons.
In terms of overall balance, the AMG HPA is something of an ideal companion for the AMG STA because of its remarkably robust bass and full and harmonically rich sound. These attributes perfectly complement the AMG STA’s relatively weaker areas. The preamp has good resolving abilities, great PRaT and absolutely no harshness. The end result of the two products is a very well-balanced sound that is perfectly representative of the combined products’ price class.
However, the AMG STA power amp is so finely resolved and so transparent that I also hear that the overall resolution and refinement drop a few notches when the AMG HPA is used instead of the Audio-GD Master 1 preamp or a signal direct from the C1 DAC. It just paints with broader strokes and while the sonic match is great, it ultimately limits the AMG STA’s audiophile performance.
To be fair: the C1 is stratospherically-priced and the Audio-GD and the Audio-GD is at an advantage with its 100% Chinese roots. At the AMG HPA’s retail price there are precious few American or European preamps that will perform better and certainly even fewer with such great ergonomics.
Machined from aluminum and with ball-bearings as knobs, this remote control sets the standard not only in the AMG HPA’s price class but far beyond!
I am very positive about the preamp’s looks and functionality. The volume knob works smoothly and precisely, its micro-pore led displays are highly legible and the supplied full-metal remote control puts the cheap plastic affairs of many competitors, even high-priced ones, to shame.
The AMG HPA is an excellent preamp in its own right but it does not quite reach the same audiophile heights as the AMG STA power amp. Of course, one of its attractive uses is as a headphone amplifier and for analog sources, an analog preamp is required but if your sources are digital-only, then I’d advise getting a DAC with a good (digital) volume control and prepare to be amazed at the AMG STA’s audiophile quality.
Listening – Magico Q5
After a 1,5-hour drive to Niels’ residence and without any warm-up, the AMG STA was connected to the Magico Q5’s after we had listened to them using the Jadis JA200 Gold tube power amplifiers. A pretty daunting comparison, right? But when starting the first track of the small playlist that we had prepared we were instantly impressed. No, the diminutive amp did not sound the same as the 4-chassis Jadis beast (that would be a miracle) but it most definitely sounded remarkably fluid and superbly hi-res. Especially in the midrange, we felt that the sound could do with a little bit more sweetness. Would that be the amp’s Class-D genes finally being exposed? As it turned out, not at all.
After having dinner we repeated the playlist only to look each other in the face after 20 seconds as we both felt that the sound was MUCH improved. The midrange had now attained just the right amount of sweetness and harmonic richness while retaining its incredible resolution and also the bass was now a little fuller and more powerful.
Apparently, even more so than the SONs, the Q5’s are ruthlessly revealing and this was the first time that I noticed the AMG STA sounds best after 30-60 minutes. Of course, the Q5’s are ultra-clean, to the point that many people find them to sound cold. Personally, I don’t feel that way (anymore), they’re just merciless but when all’s good, all is indeed FANTASTIC.
It can’t be seen in the photos but to avoid “floating” the amp on the thick carpet, I used cones underneath
And what about power? Well, we did not crank up the volume all the way to the levels that we would do when the Q5’s are driven by big solid-state amplifiers but, trust me, we pushed it far enough to know that the AMG STA has no problems whatsoever driving these difficult speakers. Dynamically, also, there was absolutely nothing amiss. In fact, we both felt that the Soulution 711 did not sound any more dynamic or expressive when we fired it up next.
The relatively beefy Nirvana speaker cables are terminated with Bananas, making for an easy and fool-proof connection
So was the AMG STA then the better match? Well, all things considered, no. But that’s a matter of system synergy. In Niels’ room, the Q5’s sound a little lean in the 100Hz region and that’s one of the main reasons why the Soulution 711 does a better job. The AMG STA had excellent control in the bass. Actually, it had better articulation and pitch definition than the 711 but it was at times a little too lean and could do with more pressure. The 711 also sounds more sonorous and tonally fuller but I’m on the fence as to whether I prefer that to the cleaner and more neutral and more hi-res AMG STA’s presentation. What I do know is that while the bass was more enjoyable via the 711, it took some time for me to get used to the lower overall resolution and comparatively darker and slightly rough treble.
Conclusion
The AMG STA not only addresses all of the ST-10’s weaker areas but actually raises the overall quality to such an extent that it comfortably positions itself among high-end competitors that cost multiples upon multiples. Alas, in the process, it does give up a portion of the ST-10’s bass heft and overall robustness. But otherwise, it sets the benchmark, not only in its price class but also far, far beyond.
This means that the decision between AMG STA and ST-10 will come down to personal preferences and system synergy. But no matter how you look at it, what the AMD STA achieves is absolutely class-defying. Starting now, the ST-10 must share its position as my favorite affordable amplifier with the AMG STA.
Follow-up Review
In part two of this review, I will be reviewing the NuPrime AMG PRA preamp with two AMG STA amplifiers switched to mono operation.
NuPrime AGM-PRA with 2x AMG-STA power amplifier
External Links
Manufacturer’s website: NuPrime
Distributor for the BeNeLux: Dimex
Thanks for the informative review of the Nuprime AMG STA and all your other reviews for that matter. I always greatly enjoy your reviews. It’s also a wise decision to test equipment in someone elses system in order to get a broader grip on how the equipment under review behaves with other components. Keep up the good work.
If you look at the specs for NuPrime’s amps, their SBR specs are not very good. Don’t know about you, but I’m not a big fan of amp noise.
I’m not sure what you are referring to but I judge audio equipment by ear, not by spec.
The SNR is not a good measure of a state of the art amp’s performance, because AMG STA has PURPOSELY added GOOD 2nd-order harmonics. Those are the characteristics that makes the amp sounded “real”, where an old violin sounded like one, etc. SNR measurement won’t be able to differentiate good “noise” versus bad noise. I bet you have not listened to NuPrime amps before, otherwise you won’t be making this statement. Give it a try.
Ah, SNR! You wrote SBR…
You are correct in that they have carefully added 2nd order harmonics, just like it would happen with tube amplifiers. I’m not saying that more distortion is better (in principle it is not). But in important aspects, this can actually help create the illusion of reality. On the other hand, it takes away some precision and transparency. Still, it’s always about weighing various aspects against one another and it is the end result of all combined measures and techniques that counts. That, and the end user’s set of preferences and of course the system synergy. But rather than discuss the good or bad of this in theory, I prefer to just listen to the products that I review.
Hello
It is always excellent to read your reviews !!! I find that your reviews are well done with comparisons with other products and sound specifications which are well rendered. your report is rich in lessons. thanks again.
I want to clarify about the “adding” of 2nd order harmonics. We are not dealing with digital design here. So there is no such thing as simply “adding” for the sake of having some sound characteristic. It doesn’t work like this in the actual design. What we did was to use the Class A transistors circuit to shape the sound, just like what linear amps would do. So if you want a warmer linear amp, you would pick the tube or transistor with the sound characteristic. Likewise, the transistors circuit that we created, would have higher order of even harmonics, which existing in linear amps as well.
First of all a big thank you for your site which is worth gold to me.
Concerning the AMG STA in stereo presented here, in view of the increase in quality of the ST10 in mono (resolution-refinement), and idem for the STA9 that I had in stereo then 2X monos with a nice improvement in dynamics, aperture and depth as well as in bass resolution in particular, I can not help wondering about the contribution of 2 AMG STA in mono … This to improve, perhaps, the dynamics which seems to you to be a little lacking and in particular for the strength of the low frequencies, which are also important to me.
This is for my Harbeth M40.2 for which I was thinking of changing the current Modwright KWA150SE amp for a Bryston B4 cubed. Its price is more than twice as much as 2 AMG STA for a final rendering that would then seem quite close?
Finally, which power cables would you recommend for the AMG?
Thank you in advance for your opinion
A pair of AMG STA’s is certainly worth investigating and is on the list of things to do. But I can’t guarantee that it will materialize.
Hi
Reading your review of the NuPrime Evolution Ones it sound a lot like the AMG STA. Can you comment on the difference, even though you didn’t have them side by side? Could you please also write a sentence or two about the sonic difference between NuPrime and the Audio GD mono blocks?
Thanks for great reviews. Can’t wait to read about Vinnie Rossi and Classé.
Stay safe,
Per
If my two reviews read similarly then I’ve not done a good enough job to differentiate. With my current knowledge, I feel that the AMG STA is even more refined and fluid than the Evo Ones. Also, I feel that the little stereo amp is more fun to listen to than the more business-like Evo Ones. The Audio-GD’s are the best amps I’ve heard bar the CH A1.5. That’s only fair given the difference in size, weight and cost. The Classe is only reviewed for Dutch printed magazine HVT. I don’t think I’ll write an English review for HFA but you never know.
Christiian,
I did have a chance to test the Classé Delta Pre + Classé Delta Stereo Power Amp at home for a week, so I was extra curious to find out if we had similar findings. The fan noise was too loud for me. No need to look for dark background in other components if you have a fan noise killing all of it. I found it to be rather even in the frequency delivery but I lacked some speed in the transients. High quality design and material but I think the price was too high compared to the performance. Bass delivery wasn’t to my liking at lower volume levels. Also very narrow angle of response for the remote. For this amount of money there are other more tempting options, in my book.
My apologies for misspelling your name Christiaan, sorry about that.
No probs, of course:-)
Hi Per, I agree on several points, especially the fan noise. Way too audible indeed. I’ve fed that back to the manufacturer, hopefully, they can do something about that. Without going into detail, in general, I think more highly of the amp than the preamp.
Hi Per, agreed on the fan noise. It’s too much for me, too. I have now published a full Classe Delta pre+ power review on HFA.
Hi ..all you need is the Nuprime Dac évolution review ??
Happy year ??
Christiaan another fantastically thorough well written review thank you. I have zero interest in Class D or SS at all for that matter and yet I was thoroughly entertained. Happy New Year!
Cheers,
Jon
Thanks for your informative and comprehensive review on the Nuprime AMG STA stereo power amplifier. I’m coming up on 9 years I have been using a Wyred 4 Sound ST-1000 class D amplifier to power my ML Spires. With my musical tastes leaning heavily toward acoustic jazz and jazz vocals for both analogue and digital playback, the AMG STA voicing sounds like it would be a very good match for the Spires and possibly a substantial upgrade to my ST-1000 amp as it several generations of class D behind. Did you have a chance to test the AMG STA with your ML ESL 15a? If so, could you please share the results. If not, any thoughts you could share on suitability with ML ESLs would be appreciated.
Hi Ed, the AMG-STA works very well with the 15A’s and it displays the same differences from the ST-10 or the A1.5 as observed with the Magicos. That said, I feel that Logans always have a slight synthetic quality. This was the least present in the 15A’s but still there, compared to the Magicos. With this in mind, an amplifier that sounds robust, open and lifelike combines best, in my opinion. The CH works superbly well and AVM also works very well. The NuPrime ST-10 offers great tonality (it actually counteracts the Logans’ slightly less than natural tonality) and solid bass but the Logans do unveil its limitations in terms of resolution. And I prefer to use an amp with tight bass with the Logans as they don’t need any extra fulness. The AMG-STA, finally, sounds gorgeously refined and highly detailed and that works well with the Logans. It also has leaner and slightly more precise bass which also works well. However, while the AMG-STA is very linear and neutral and not synthetic in itself, it does not counteract/supplement this inherent Logan quality as much as the more solid and “wooden” sounding ST-10 does.
I’ve not heard the W4S ST-1000 but since they contain early ICEpower modules, my guess would be the AMG-STA might indeed be an upgrade for you on all accounts.
Lastly, please note that I am apparently more sensitive to what I perceive as a synthetic quality of Logans (and Quads, as well) than most.
Hi Christiaan, Thanks for the thoughtful and thorough response. I too find at certain times and am sensitive to the Spires sounding a bit synthetic/artificial (something inherent in the electrostatic membrane vs. traditional cone drivers?) especially when it comes to reproducing the correct robust, reedy and hearty timbre of jazz saxophone. Conversely it doesn’t present itself as an issue with vocals, piano, drums or even trumpet. But since a majority of my listening library involves recordings of acoustic jazz with saxophone being prominent it’s important the amplifier help to make saxophone sound more well like a saxophone. If I read your response correctly the ST-10’s solid & “wooden” character would alleviate the synthetic sounding saxophone more so than AMG-STA. And this may be more important than the level of refinement the AGM-STA brings.
Hi Ed, that all sounds familiar. Indeed, if making a sax sound most acoustically realistic then the ST-10 will likely be more ideal than the AMG-STA. However, given the opportunity, I’d really advise to listen to both.
Ed,
I hope you don’t mind me chiming in, just another audiophile here, but if your Spires don’t reproduce sax well and most of your listening is to sax led bands perhaps what you need is not a new amp? I am sure the Nuprime sounds fantastic, I find Christian’s reviews to be spot on, but long term will that timbre issue still be nagging at you? Just my two cents and good luck with your system whichever way you go.
Cheers,
Jon
Good point, Jon. The thing is that it is hard to find a speaker that has all the pros of Martin Logans, not the cons, and costs similar money as the Spires in this case. I feel that the Magico S1 mk2’s go a long way toward achieving this ideal in many facets (for my taste at least but not everyone will agree), but below 40Hz, understandably, it is no contest with the ESL15A’s. Also, Logans tend to be open and detailed but still relaxed and even a little sweet. This is a quality (or deficiency, depending on your views) that you don’t often find in traditional speakers. That said, the Spires have prodigious bass but it’s not quite as articulate or as controlled, or as well-connected to the foil as that of the later generation Logans. In that regard, certain traditional dynamic speakers may offer a good alternative. In any event, Ed, I hope you can work it out!
Hi Christiaan,
Thanks again for all your thoughtful input.
Though difficult it may be to audition ST10s vs. AMG-STAs it’s good to know that both are equally good match for Spires and it comes down to personal choice.
As for eventually moving away from Spires to something newer and possibly non-electrostatic, I’d love to audition a pair of dynamic speakers that is under $10k USA a pair, retains many of the positive virtues of ML electrostatics but sounds more natural for acoustic jazz music. If you can think of one please let me know.
Best,
Ed
Hi Ed, alas, for under 10K retail, I really wouldn’t know. Most important for me (coming from decades of using Logans, Magnepans and Apogees) is that a speaker is linear and has the lowest possible coloration and with cabinets that almost automatically leads to high cost. The first cabinet speakers that I feel are comparable to Logans in this respect while improving on them in certain other aspects are the Magico S1 mk2’s, at ~10K second hand. They are not perfect but neither are the Logans. Or any speaker for that matter:-)
Hi Christiaan, You’ve confirmed what I thought that under $10k it would be very difficult to build a cabinet speaker that equals or improves upon Logans. Magicos have earned a great reputation with cabinet construction and sound quality and maybe there’s a second hand pair in my future. Thx again!
Hi Jon,
Friendly input is always welcome. You make a very valid point in context with doing a major overhaul of my system but I’m currently focused on doing less costly incremental improvements.
Best,
Ed
Hi Christiaan,
Another interesting review from your hand.
In the past you also favorably reviewed the Kinki Studio integrated. How does this compare to the NuPrime AMG STA ? I know it’s comparing an integrated to a power amp but still something can be said about the sound quality I think. Kinki also has mono amps in their line up that may compete with the STA in mono setting. What’s your opinion ?
best regards
Hi Ben, In retrospect, the Kinki will be closer to the ST-10: a solid and bold sound but not the most refined. The Kinki does not have much in common with the AMG-STA. As for the newer mono’s, I can only guess. From reading the information if I interpret it correctly, it seems the company strives for a forgiving and rich delivery which gives me pause but, in practice, this can turn out differently. Terms like rich can mean different things to different people. At some point, I may review the Kinki amplifiers but not for the foreseeable future.
hi Christiaan,
Thanks for your reply.
Very recently I purchased an Audio-gd HE-1 preamplifier which is a step up from the Master 1 you reviewed earlier and now I’m looking for a power amp to match it with. The Kinki might be a candidate but the NuPrime can be a contender as well and of course Audio-gd has power amps/mono blocks in their line up that I could consider also.
My next speakers will likely be the ELM ELS X from Martin Logan. In the past I used to own Quad electrostatics and I like to return to these type of speakers because they do things so well. The ML Masterpiece series are out of my financial reach unfortunately.
Refinement is important but perhaps too much of it might make the sound too polite I wonder ? If have to compromise between refinement and a dynamic, lively and lifelike sound I would choose the latter. Of course if you could have it all now wouldn’t that be great !
A richer sounding amplifier (not too much) might just be the right thing to add in order to fill out the somewhat lighter electrostatic signature just to make it sound that little bit fuller and timbrally perhaps more natural.. Your ML Renaissance 15A might not need this because it is already warm enough sounding all by itself because of its size.
If you have any alternatives to the ones I already mentioned please let me know, your advice is much appreciated.
Oh, and keep those reviews coming, they always guarantee interesting reading material for us audiophiles.
Hi Ben, smaller Logans tend to be brighter than the big models. They are also more forward and less smooth than Quads. You are right in assuming that refinement often comes along with politeness. It’s very difficult to balance this just right, resulting in many amps that are either slightly too polite or slightly too rough. I totally agree that the ESL15A’s have more than enough body themselves but for the smaller Logans, this is indeed different.
It’s good that you are leaning toward one “extreme” as that makes it easuer to find your ideal amp. Considering that you value liveliness and dynamics over the last bit of refinement as well as expressing a preference for fullness I would recommend trying the NuPrime ST-10 first. It is not warm or smooth but sonorous, rich and very robust and I think it will perfectly supplement the slightly lean Logans in the bass and lower midrange while being compensated in the treble by the Logans’ openness to make for a nice balance.
The amp’s dynamics and joy-de-Vivre will likely put a big smile on your face. The Audio-GD monos really are superb but they are very clean and revealing and I suspect not ideal with these smaller Logans, not to mention overkill in terms of power. You might try the AMG-STA next if you decide that you’d like a little bit more finesse but bear in mind that the ST-10 remains the king of solidity and bass heft.
Hi Christiaan,
That is some review of the AMG STA amp, especially when combined with your March ‘21 follow up on using two in mono. You mention it’s incredible value “outperforming amps costing multiples”, though then “unfairly”comparing it to the CH. Question- How would it compare to a moderately (more within the multiple range) priced high end amp like your previously reviewed Bryston 4b3, 7b3?
Thanks
Hi Marc, haha yes, indeed, these little amps really sound remarkable. In my view, they also stack up well against Bryston, no matter if that’s a 3B, 4B, 7B, or 14B. In all cases, the AMG STA provides a more hi-res, more articulate, and more refined sound. However, as you might expect, the NuPrime does not have the extra big and powerful Bryston bass. I think I’ve performed comparisons in the various Bryston reviews, certainly with the ST-10 but perhaps also with the AMG STA, have a look!
Ok, because of you I bought a single AMG STA, just temporarily installed it yesterday. This amp might be meant for my 4b3/15a setup or…..I own another setup using Tekton Double Impact SE speakers. They are incredibly revealing, like no other speaker I have ever owned. In fact they are so “neutral”, I can even hear the difference in wire changes.
I need preamps for both setups, (I know that, that’s why I want you to review the Bryston BR-20, lol), and an amp for one of them. I’m currently running a Cambridge Audio 851N in pre-amp mode for the 15a’s and an Emotiva XMC-1 (actually meant for surround) for the Tektons. The Tektons are being driven by my old Sunfire Cinema Grand.
My Dilemma- I flip tested my Sunfire and 4b3, between the two speakers, I without reservation feel the 4b3 does 10x more for the Tektons than the 15a’s. So, in comes your NuPrime AMG, to see which one it did the most for. I haven’t gotten there, lol. My 15a’s are up at home, my Tektons are at the beach.
So what’s the point…and how might it help your readers on the NuPrime AMG subject? I have an interesting observation that I didn’t expect to try, and certainly didn’t expect to hear. Of course the NuPrime kills my Sunfire in every way except maybe bass heft. Though the NuPrime is much better at bass control.
My observation..I also own the NuPrime IDA-6 mini amp/pre/dac, which I use to power a set of JM labs bookshelfs used instead of internal TV speakers elsewhere in the house. I started switching the AMG for the IDA-6, I can’t tell the difference. Other than, yes, the AMG can be driven louder, I literally hear no difference across the board. I’m scratching my head. How can the $500 IDA, that is also a pre and DAC sound as good as the $1700 AMG??? Could it be my emotiva is just that bad a pre-amp, stepping down the AMG vs the all in one IDA?? I have no way to figure it out, as I feel my Cambridge is just as weak as the emotiva, plus, 150 miles away. Suppose the only way to figure this out is to borrow a preamp and switch out the emotiva. Any thoughts/suggestions?
Hi Marc, nice feedback! Well, I think it’s twofold. Indeed, the preamps will likely be bottlenecks here. A good way to circumvent this is by using a DAC that has a built-in volume control. Second, I can imagine that even an entry-level NuPrime amplifier such as the IDA-6 will provide many of the brand’s core values. It’s similar technology, after all. But I don’t doubt that more profound differences will be observed once you have eliminated the preamp.
So, I’ll be doing a head to head with my Bryston 4b3 and my NuPrime AMG STA when I get them together in the next week or so. Will report back with thoughts.
Though in the interim, I’ve been trying to gauge what brick and mortar US dealers think of NuPrime. I called 5 dealers, (3 my personal current or past dealers who don’t carry NuPrime, 1 who does carry them and one who doesn’t). I have gotten unexpected though very uniform answers.
If they have heard of NuPrime (2 didn’t), they think they are junk. All said they don’t even want to spend the time to listen (!?!?!?) if I brought it in which I found shocking. The one that does carry them said, he knows they are a tough sell cause they are nearly impossible to have repaired, and they did have a whisper reputation of being poor build quality, and breaking often, but he added this was mostly during the days of NuForce.
So it has me scratching my head, why do US dealers hate NuPrime?? Can it really be the obvious guess (based on christiaan’s review comparison)….US high end dealers hate NuPrime cause they make their big margin equipment look bad???
I’ll have an opinion at least against a 3x the price amp soon.
Hi Marc, well, I can’t speak for the dealers but it’s not unusual for affordable products to be frowned upon in high-end circles, I guess it’s only human. And I’m sure there are also commercial aspects to it. In any event, my personal experience tells me that the NuPrime products are highly competitive, as outlined in my reviews.
Here’s a nice anecdote. My good friend JW has an all-Zesto tube system with Apogee Duetta Signatures and very recently his power amps needed servicing. Thus, I loaned him my AMG-STA in the interim. Previously, he used Jeff Rowland and he was never a Class-D fan. Of course, a “simple” amp would be better than no amp, and thus, he connected the little AMG and he was perplexed! Not only did his speakers produce the best bass he had heard from them thus far, but he was also amazed at the resolution and the level of nuance and refinement, in no way second to that of the Zestos. Even the soundstaging was as deep and layered as before. The only downside that he mentioned was that the NuPrime did not have quite the free-breathing quality of the tube amps and, most importantly, the unrestrained dynamics. By this, he does not mean slam or overall impact but rather the variance within the dynamic envelope. In comparison, the AMG-STA’s dynamics were more “compact”, with the combined sound modulating in level more or less all at once like a block, whereas with the Zesto’s, all the instruments and sounds move individually and at different rates. JW’s experience makes a lot of sense to me as this very much ties in with the common differences between Class-A versus Class-D. To me, however, the differences are smaller because as you know I use Class A/B transistor amplification and I am used to the relatively more stilted and compact kind of delivery. So, this is a long story just to reiterate that I stand by all my statements regarding NuPrime. Yes, you can do better but it will cost you many multiples.
On the subject of reliability, I think this did indeed pertain to the NuForce products, and maybe, certain initial NuPrime products. I have yet to encounter any issues with any of the NuPrime products that I used or own.
I never wrote back as to my Bryston 4b3 vs Nuprime AMG STA comparison. Writing the conclusion first, I now own the 2 of the AMG STA’s in mono along with my Bryston 4b3.
How’d I get there. I already owned the 4b3 and have had it paired with my ML 15a’s. LOVE the combo. A while back a friend brought his AMG’s over and we swapped my bryston for them. I was amazed at the time.
Fast forward, the latest comparison was to help me pick an amp for a new pair of Tekton Double Impact SEs I purchased for my summer place. I didn’t want to spend too much as it is a summer place, hence the AMG STA tryout. Well, I finally lugged my Bryston all the way to my summer place and compared it against 1 AMG STA, again, on the Tekton Double Impact SEs. Using a Cambridge 851n as preamp and streamer. Also using an Emotiva CD transport via AES connection. The very short version of my findings.
The AMG had the edge on clarity…it seemed. The bass was no doubt faster/tighter but it was not as powerful or well rounded as my 4b3. Which made me think two things, 1- was the AMG’s faster speed in bass thus proof of the additional clarity I was hearing in the higher range, or 2- was the fact that the Bryston sounded warmer in the bass and most definitely in the mid-range (think- “more finished” as if it was passing through a tube preamp) making my ears think the AMG sounded clearer in the highs?
I can tell you, I felt the Bryston’s overall sound was “better” because of this more well rounded (warmer, stronger bass and mid) presentation. But as I sad, you felt immediately like you lost that amazing un-artificial speed and clarity clarity that was present in the AMG STA. I almost felt like, perhaps the AMG just needed a proper preamp pairing to finish/polish the sound the way you like, whereas the Bryston, already felt complete. I’ll stop with this (leave the proper reviewing to Christiaan, lol) though I do have a lot more to say and have plenty more details to share should anyone like to hear more. Just ask.
Thanks for the feedback, Marc, I can totally follow your reasoning. In my view, the AMG-STA’s are very close to utter neutrality (but a little lean compared to a cross-section of everything out there) while the Bryston is a little fuller/fatter than strictly neutral but this is how many people like it. As always, these things are not really absolute:-)
Indeed, and the hobby goes on…what pairing might yield that next level magical balance?? : )
In addition to making me think that the NuPrime needed a warm preamp, the comparison now has me thinking, (I’ve held off on a preamp for my 4b3/MLs) with the Bryston seemingly having that “finished sound”, but clearly lacking in detail compared to the NuPrime, perhaps my preamp choice should be one that can extract more detail??
I heard that the Bryston BR-20 is very revealing, maybe an all Bryston pairing is the way to go? Haven’t had any luck finding a demo yet, so hoping you do to read your review.
While a preamp definitely puts a mark on the end result, it’s not likely that a preamp will yield a fresher/more explicit sound than a direct DAC output. And those that do, often achieve this by adding harshness. The BR20 is still on the list but there’s an ongoing shortage and the distributor can’t get his hands on a demo unit. As good as it might be (and I think it will be very good) it also probably won’t be the answer for you.
I agree with your thought that a DAC is really what will bring out the details, I therefore agree a preamp isn’t something I feel my 4B3 needs. I’m actually focused on the Bryston BR-20’s DAC performance. I know it is just reusing the identical delta sigma DACs that they use in the BDA-3, which based on old reviews, sounds like they simply can’t compete with the better ladder DACs like the Denafrips. But, my thought (hope), is they upgraded the implementation pulling even greater detail out of them. Then the fact that they are paired with the supposedly incredible preamp side, it might turn out to be something special??
The fact that the unit has a streamer which I always thought made sense from a design standpoint, and it having an HDMI board to pass through video for my TV, located between my MLs…well, it’s really hard not to hope…
As I am finding with Aries Cerat products recently, an analog preamp can absolutely do A LOT, but it’s not about crispness or resolution or things like that. Indeed, if it’s the ultimate level of detail and transparency that you are looking for, then you can’t beat the Denafrips, certainly not at the price. Although… never compared them directly but Audio-GD also has a great contender in the R8. On the BR-20 I can only speculate but it wouldn’t be the first time that a built-in DAC performs surprisingly well and the same goes for built-in streamers. In any event, try before you buy.
Hi Christiaan,
Been awhile, figured I check back in on the BR-20 review. At this point, it’s not appropriate to keep a Bryston and a DAC conversation topic under a review for NuPrime amps but not sure where else to put it where it would have context from previous posts.
You think it’s been hard to get a review sample because Bryston doesn’t want someone reviewing it that can compare it to ladder DAC…lol.
Hi Marc, Alas, no news on the BR-20 front. Honestly, I’m no longer chasing this as I am very busy with reviews as it stands. If the manufacturer or distributor wants a review, they know where to find me;-)
Hey, just wanted to say thank you for this in-depth review! I’m thinking about buying Dynaudio Special Forty together with a Bluesound Node X – and the NuPrime might just be the fitting amp that I’m looking for, I hope those 3 components will match well.
Hi Lukas, I think the AMG-STA delivers fantastic bang for buck. I can’t speak for your particular combination but if my sonic descriptions of the AMG-STA resonate with you then I think you will be very pleasantly surprised by what this little amp can do.
Many thanks for your Nuprime tests.
I just upgraded to an AMG-STA Mono amp for my Martin Logan Quest, instead of a Naim Supernet3 amp.
I absolutely do not regret this change.
the ML are beautifully driven by the Nuprime Mono.
the sound is clean and precise and with a definition that I didn’t have with the Naim.
All that remains is to go through (in the near future) the AMG-PRA to manage all this….